Received: by dot.crosswinds.net (mbox republican) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 29 14:54:13 1999) X-From_: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Fri Oct 29 11:33:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (majordomo@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [198.169.128.1]) by dot.crosswinds.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA88957 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:27:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24511; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:51:45 -0600 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:51:45 -0600 Message-Id: <199910291251.GAA24511@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #188 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, October 29 1999 Volume 03 : Number 188 In this issue: Re: Buying gun stuff in the States Gun-toting, gun-grabbing actors Colt not selling? Re: Convictions database Silly changes Sending restrict firearms-pistol to gunsmith in US Re: BC Hunters take note Woody Theal cc s337 in practice Victoria Gun Show NOT Vancouver Gun Show Locations of Shooting Ranges Response to BC Hydro Public Insult Fw: "Taking Aim at Powerlines" advertisement Re: cc s337 in practice Re: Hunters take note (Myles Bruns) What the feds exempted as INTERNATIONAL SPORTING COMPETITION HANDGUNS Sposal abuse ad's wording disciminatory to the Firearms Community Would you please look into this & respond... lettertoOttawaCit ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 06:22:31 -0600 From: "Randy Nelson" Subject: Re: Buying gun stuff in the States Libbie, A Canadian Citizen, I tried to purchase a new Marlin 1895G 45/70 while in Michigan. Not a chance; ITARS at work I'm afraid. Without a BATF import/export permit, the only way you can secure said firearm is to have the US vendor physically deliver it to Canadian Customs. (Kustoms for Peter). For a price, you might import via one of the few remaining Canadian gun stores, but you will wait months, maybe even a year or more for delivery. And if that's not enough; gunshops in Northern US centers have reportedly been under BATF surveillance, watching for Canadian buyers. I'm not sure what could or would happen if you were able to buy the Rifle and you were "observed". Bettcha it would not be good though! And my 45/70? Can't find one anywhere in Canada. Just about every dealer I know has some on order, and has for months! Sure hope another Digest digester has something more encouraging for you. Randy Nelson "When I am abroad, I always make it a rule to never criticize or attack the government of my own country. I make up for lost time when I come home." - Winston Churchill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 06:22:34 -0600 From: Jim Davies Subject: Gun-toting, gun-grabbing actors On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > > In ALL the TV and movies, our children are taught the worst possible things > about what to do with a firearm. Even more repugnant are the actors who makes a personal fortune espousing violence with a firearm then, once personally secure financially, use whatever influence they have to support anti-gun pressure groups. Creatures like Sean Connery and Michael Douglas come to mind. I just saw an interview on TV a few weeks ago with another "Agent 007" [cant remember his name] actor who stated that he "always had hated guns" but was thankful of the wealth his film career had brought, thus enabling him to "speak out against" their ownership by tax payers. He didnt mention what his opinion was about the use of guns in crime, so I suppose, Cukier-like, he doesn't care. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:09:24 -0600 From: "Michael Hovi" Subject: Colt not selling? Recently there were a series of articles in the papers over here in Britain (I'm watching the Rugby World Cup) about how Colt will no longer be selling to civilians to avoid lawsuits. Now, I'm very intrigued by their new Crossfire Mk 1 Over/Under pump rifle/shotgun, but will I not be able to purchase it? I hope that, since they want to avoid lawsuits in the USA, that they will still export to foreigners, who don't have the same sort of lawsuit fever as our american neighbours do. I hope someone has some information. Michael A. Hovi mikehovi@hotmail.com "We fight not for glory, nor for wealth, nor honour but only and alone for freedom which no good man surrenders but with his life." - -- Robert the Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:09:15 -0600 From: "Carlo Robazza" Subject: Re: Convictions database Sorry Brad, but you're dreaming. I sent an email to my MP and Anne McLellan about this very thing. I wanted to know how many people had been charged / convicted of using a firearm in a crime. They replied that those statistics were not kept. Carlo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:09:40 -0600 From: "Robert Knight" Subject: Silly changes Hi all. I am new to this forum and think it a good site for getting different views on the problem we all (firearm enthusiasts) have with a foolish government. It would be nice if we lived in a true democracy instead of the dictatorship we endure now. To illustrate this, here in Nova Scotia they recently transfered the safety training to local Community Collages and in my humble opinion have created another monster. I have a small gunshop which is practically defunct. A customer recently wanted a P-14 Enfield for competion purposes and I had a good one in stock. Unfortunatly his FAC had expired and on contacting the CFO was told that there was a waiting list of 6001 Needless to say that was a lost sale. Maybe Ishould start selling on the black-market (just kidding). Keep up the good work. Bob Knight ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:09:26 -0600 From: EW Subject: Sending restrict firearms-pistol to gunsmith in US Can someone tell me the procedures and paperwork required to send a pisol lower frame(which is restricted) to the States for repair? I know an ATT is required but how about Customs? What courier do you use? Enoch ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:09:30 -0600 From: MJ Subject: Re: BC Hunters take note BC Hydro has a feedback section at their website http://eww.bchydro.bc.ca/html/contact.html#feedback I sent them this comment, and a copy to Mr Costello. As a responsible hunter and a hunter education instructor, I am particularly offended by your advertisements which blame "hunters" for damage to BC Hydro powerlines. What hard evidence do you have that the damage is caused by hunters and not by common vandals? I strongly recommend that you retract these ads, and change the word hunter to vandal before you publish them again. I understand the message you are trying to get across, however degrading hunters to make your point only disrespects BC Hydro. thank you, Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:09:43 -0600 From: "John Perocchio" Subject: Woody Theal Dear Mr. Theal, Last night at around 1800 to 1815HRS, you played an ad on Y105 that had something to do with domestic violence. It starts out with " do you know what this is .....the sound of and egg being beaten .... do you know what this is ... the sound of a drum being beaten .....etc. etc. then thuds and screaming .... the sound of a woman being beaten ........ here is how you beat a man ( the sounds of a touch tone phone ) dial ..... " Now for the part that really offends me: " if you know of a woman facing violence WHETHER FIREARMS ARE INVOLVED OR NOT call ...." I'm greatly concerned that this will subtly vilify firearms owners in the public's eye even more than our Liberal government's pathetic & ill-fated firearms legislation (Bill C-68). Why not the mention of fists, knives, baseball bats etc.? These seem to be the weapons of choice for cowards that beat women (& incidently the other way around..but that's another argument); why key in on the obscure choice of firearms & create a slanted impression about firearms owners? This ad is discriminatory in nature and I am truly offended. Consequently, I respectfully request that this ad be corrected or withdrawn as it malignes your many listeners who are also firearm enthusiasts. Sincerely, John L. Perocchio Kanata, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:09:35 -0600 From: Brian Drader Subject: cc s337 in practice Thanks again to Dave and the NFA for making note of criminal code sections 337 and 494 - these two sections work quite well together. :) For those who don't have a copy of the criminal code in front of them, section 337 makes it a very serious crime for a public servant to retain your goods without authority. Section 494 allows you to arrest those whom you find committing an indictable offence (such as violating s.337). This Saturday I went to police headquarters & requested my goods (seized in 1996). The desk people referred me to the evidence control unit, which was closed until Monday. Monday afternoon I called the evidence control unit and informed them that my intent was to pick up my property. The person who answered stated that I needed to contact the Chief Firearms Office (!?) to receive 'permission' before I could obtain my goods. I stated that the CFO has nothing to do with non-firearm items, and they promised to call me back. When the callback never materiali! zed, I called them again and was again told that they could not release items - firearm or not - without permission from the CFO. That night I went out and purchased a copy of the Criminal Code. The following afternoon I called the CFO's office and left a message asking him to remedy the situation, stating the exact criminal code sections I intended to apply. Within three hours I was holding my stuff - except for some items [bow and arrows, computer disks & holder, and possibly a 10/22 magazine] which had "disappeared" prior to being entered as evidence. I was repeatedly refused a receipt for the goods at the time of seizure, and IMHO the missing goods are stolen. I've reported this theft to the internal investigations division, and am considering making a LERA complaint. Now, can anyone tell me how I could (legally) get my firearms back without waiting for a possession/acquistion certificate? Cheers, Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:09:48 -0600 From: viking@bc1.com Subject: Victoria Gun Show NOT Vancouver Gun Show I appreciate your posting the info regarding our gun show, but wish to correct the digest posting subject shown as the Vancouver Gun Show. It is a gun show hosted by the Vancouver Island Arms Collectors being held in Victoria not Vancouver. Thank you. Keith King I would apprecite it if you could post this for me please. Thanks..........Keith King The Vancouver Island Arms Collectors 38th Annual Gun Show, Ashton Armoury Museum, 724 Vanalman Ave. Victoria, B.C. October 30-31, 1999 Sat. 9-5 Sun. 9-3 Info/tables Call Ian Haynes (250) 385-6307 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:09:54 -0600 From: tulloch@planet.eon.net Subject: Locations of Shooting Ranges A while back, I had a booklet called "Where to Shoot in Aberta". Does this booklet still exist? Does anything like it exist? If so where can I get one? Please reply directly, thanx. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:09:58 -0600 From: "Mark L Horstead" Subject: Response to BC Hydro Public Insult Mr. Michael Costello, President BC Hydro PO Box 9501, Stn. Terminal Vancouver, BC V6B 4N1 Sir: I would like to strongly object to your ad which appeared in the 22 October edition of The Daily News (Kamloops) and most likely in other newspapers. This ad stated, in part, that "Hunters who use BC Hydro powerlines for target practice cause serious problems". This maligns all hunters everywhere. Hunters do not engage in such acts of vandalism and despise those who fail to show proper regard for the property of others. The perpetrators are vandals and criminals and that is how these people should be described. That they may (or may not) also be hunting at the time is irrelevant. You have no right to slander an entire group of responsible people in this manner regardless of the reason. I am disgusted. A correction to this ad, substituting the term "vandal" for "hunter" is required, as is an apology to hunters. This apology must receive at least as wide a media distribution as did the offending ad. Thank you, Mark L Horstead Newmarket, Ontario Occasional Visitor to BC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:51:16 -0600 From: "Mike Hargreaves" Subject: Fw: "Taking Aim at Powerlines" advertisement I sent a very respectful, and gentlemanly E-mail to the BC Hydro, and received this reply. Mike H. - -----Original Message----- From: Bruyneel, Stephen To: 'glock26.9mm@home.com' Date: Thursday, October 28, 1999 6:15 PM Subject: "Taking Aim at Powerlines" advertisement > >> Michael Costello, President and Chief Executive Officer of BC Hydro >> received your email regarding our advertisement titled "Taking Aim at >> Powerlines" and has asked me to get back to you on his behalf. >> >> To get right to the point, you are right - we shouldn't have used the word >> "hunters" in the advertisement. We recognize that hunters have licenses >> and are responsible with their firearms. We certainly had no intention of >> casting any aspersions upon hunters or their activities and sincerely >> apologize if that has been the case. >> >> To address your very legitimate concerns, we have done two things. First, >> the advertisement - which is a standard "template ad" available for use >> throughout BC Hydro - has been revised, with the word "hunters" replaced >> by "people". It should not appear again in the previous form. >> >> As well, a letter has been sent to the editors of all the local newspapers >> in which this advertisement appeared. In addition to setting the record >> straight in the same way we have done so here, we are also asking for the >> support of you and other hunters in helping identifying any unthinking >> people who are vandalizing our facilities. >> >> Once again, on behalf of Michael Costello and BC Hydro, I apologize for >> this mistake and look forward to moving on with your support in the >> future. >> ______________________________________ >> Stephen Bruyneel >> Manager, Corporate Communications ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:51:19 -0600 From: "Alan Harper" Subject: Re: cc s337 in practice > Thanks again to Dave and the NFA for making note of criminal code sections > 337 and 494 - these two sections work quite well together. :) For those who..., ========================= Good for you, Brian. I did the same thing in Toronto, last year, by letter to the Toronto Registrar. When he got my letter, he called me and I picked up my Dan Wesson barrel and shroud. It feels good to exercise one's rights, and I suggest everyone do it. Bye. Al. "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" (If you seek peace, prepare for war.) Appius Claudius (the Blind), Roman Senate, 281 BC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:51:23 -0600 From: PATHJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Hunters take note (Myles Bruns) As per Mary Olger (?), BCH representative, Hydro has pulled the ads and sent apologies to the editors of the papers in which the ad has run (ostensibly to be printed to correct the perception the ads targetted hunters - I can't confirm this). Secondly, the ads will be re-written to remove the offensive use of the term "hunter" in describing the vandalism of BC Hydro property. 10 years ago, we would have all read this ad and thought; "good, hope they catch the stupid idiot SOB's who are doing this and charge 'em". Now we have to hassle Hydro and complain in the strongest terms the delusory use of the word "hunter" in an ad which is basically legitimate. God how I hate, with every fiber of my soul, the liberal, elitist, anti gun, anti hunting, anti male hoplophobe faction which is forcing us into the political correctness game. I just don't see any other way but to play it. What sad, pathetic times we live in. Thanks to Myles Bruns for the original post. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:51:31 -0600 From: "Rod Regier" Subject: What the feds exempted as INTERNATIONAL SPORTING COMPETITION HANDGUNS Check out: http://canada.justice.gc.ca/FTP/EN/Regs/Chap/C/C-46/SOR98-465.txt LIST OF PRESCRIBED EXCLUDED HANDGUNS Column 1 Column 2 Column 3 Item Calibre Make Model 1. 22 L.R. Walther GSP 2. 22 L.R. Walther OSP 3. 22 L.R. Unique DES 69 4. 22 Short Unique VO 79 5. 22 Short Domino OP 601 6. 22 Short FAS 601 7. 22 Short Hammerli (SIG) 202 8. 22 Short High Standard Olympic 9. 22 Short Pardini GP 10. 22 Short Sako Tri-Ace 11. 22 Short Walther OSP 12. 32 S&W Benelli MP 90 S 13. 32 S&W Domino / FAS CF 603 14. 32 S&W Erma ESP 85 15. 32 S&W Hammerli 280 16. 32 S&W Hammerli P240 17. 32 S&W Manurhin MR 32 18. 32 S&W Pardini HP 19. 32 S&W Sako Tri-Ace 20. 32 S&W Unique DES 32 U 21. 32 S&W Vostok TOZ 49 Rev. 22. 32 S&W Walther GSP - -- Rod Regier mailto:rsr@hfx.andara.com (902) 453-4733 Halifax, N.S., Canada Lat: 44.6415, Long: -63.6174 Opinions expressed are mine alone. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:51:27 -0600 From: "John Perocchio" Subject: Sposal abuse ad's wording disciminatory to the Firearms Community Dear Ms. Pendrith, I appreciate the time you've taken to address my concerns about the spousal abuse ad. I certainly understand that this ad's primary intent was to focus on the crime and not to malign the firearms community. Regrettably, it has a wording that is both offensive and discriminatory to firearms owners. Since this ad was first brought to my attention I've received quite a bit of correspondence criticizing the unthinking fashion in which the wording is presented. The federal Liberal government's pathetic firearms bill (C-68) is in practice what many in the firearms community consider to be a war of attrition. The wording of the ad in question exacerbates this situation by further casting the firearm owner in the position of thug or abuser. This is clearly unacceptable. Rest assured that letters have been written to Premier Harris & those government officials responsible, complaining of the unthinking manner in which that this ad was constructed. In the interim I would ask again that you pull this ad until it gets "repaired" as more than a few of your listeners are from the firearms community and will doubtless be angered by it's current text. You very kindly offered to forward a list of contacts for all the parties involved in the commercial should anyone want to share their comments directly with those responsible for creating it. Please do this as soon as possible as this ad must be stopped before it does more damage. Awaiting you reply, John L. Perocchio - -----Original Message----- From: Cathy Pendrith To: 'paracorp@magma.ca' Date: October 28, 1999 4:19 PM Subject: FW: [Fwd: Attn: Woody Theal (Resend)] >Hello Mr. Perocchio. > >Woody forwarded your e-mail to me because I'm the Creative Director at the >station. I'm familiar with the ad you're referring to. It was sent to us by >Crimestoppers, who tell me that the line "whether firearms are involved or >not" was added to the commercial because people seem to have no problem >calling police if a firearm is involved, but will ignore abuse if there is >no weapon. Since the majority of spousal abuse DOES NOT involve firearms, >they felt it was important to get people to pick up the phone and report ALL >kinds of abuse. > >They did not mean to imply, in any way, that firearms owners are more likely >to abuse their spouses. They just want people to report the abuse. > >It has been said that silence is the abuser's strongest weapon, so >Crimestoppers and the Ontario Solicitor General bought this ad campaign on >the majority of radio stations across Ontario to encourage people to report >this serious crime. > >I have contacted the agency responsible for producing the commercial and >passed along your comments. They have promised to send me a list of >contacts for all the parties involved in the commercial should anyone want >to share their comments directly with those responsible for creating the >commercial. Please let me know if you'd like me to send you the names and >numbers when I receive them. > >I appreciate you taking the time to let us know your feelings on this >commercial. I hope I satisfied your concern. Please let me know if there's >anything else I can help you with, and thanks for listening. > >Sincerely, > >Cathy Pendrith >Creative Director >Y105 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:51:37 -0600 From: "John Perocchio" Subject: Would you please look into this & respond... Dear Premier Harris, I have just sent an e-mail to Y105 Radio regarding an ad that is playing in the Ottawa area. The e-mail is below and is self-explanatory. It has been brought to my attention that the Government of Ontario is sponsoring this ad. I find this quite distressing and would ask that you pull the ad and correct the wording. This ad is discriminatory in nature and creates a slanted impression of firearms owners. Considering the massive support the firearms community gave your government during the last two elections I find this unacceptable. Sincerely, John Perocchio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:51:43 -0600 From: OFAH@oncomdis.on.ca (Mark Holmes) Subject: lettertoOttawaCit OFAH FILE: 828 October 28, 1999 FAX: 1-613-726-1198 The Editor Ottawa Citizen 1101 Baxter Road P.O. Box 5020 Ottawa, Ontario K2C 3M4 Any person who wonders why members of the hunting community feel unfairly maligned by the media need look no farther than an October 26 article headlined Petting-zoo pony felled by gunshot. Tragically, a little girl's pet pony died, yet, before any conclusive evidence is uncovered, a hunter has been blamed. Even worse, neither the reporter Jon Waddell nor his editors took the time to check facts before printing the article. Otherwise, they would have been cognizant of the fact that, at the time of the incident, the hunting season had not yet opened. If it was a bullet that killed the pony, the shot was fired by a criminal not a hunter. And,at this point, there is serious doubt that it was a bullet that killed the pony. Every law-abiding hunter must successfully complete a hunter education course running a minimum of about 20 hours. As well, both a written and a hands on test must be passed before a hunting licence is issued. In addition to the hunter safety education requirement, a firearms safety course and test must also be successfully completed in order to legally own or possess a firearm. The firearms safety certificate also comes after a very intrusive police investigation during which criminal and mental health records are scrutinized and members of the applicant's family and acquaintances are interviewed. Throughout these safety courses, it is driven into to each and every student's head that a finger does not touch the trigger until the target is clearly identified and that the intended shot is safe and ethical. Criminals, however, do not take safety courses or abide by rules. ONTARIO FEDERATION OF ANGLERS AND HUNTERS The Editor October 28, 1999 Page Two Despite the media's vilifying of hunters, plenty of real evidence shows hunting to be one of the safest outdoor activities. The U.S. Safety Council has rated hunting safer than football, golf and even tennis and ping pong. The chance of a non hunter being injured by a stray bullet or arrow is less than winning a major lottery prize twice in a row. We truly hope that questions surrounding the death of the treasured pet pony are found, and that, from now on, the Ottawa Citizen will differentiate between law-abiding hunters and criminals. Yours in Conservation, R. G. Morgan O.F.A.H Executive Vice President ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #188 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:parry@ionline.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ Digest Back-issues: by FTP (cd pub/cdn-firearms/Digests), or visit the Cdn-Firearms web site (above), or put the next command in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v03.n022 end (022 is the digest issue number and 03 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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