Received: by dot.crosswinds.net (mbox republican) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Thu Nov 4 15:58:27 1999) X-From_: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Thu Nov 4 10:12:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (majordomo@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [198.169.128.1]) by dot.crosswinds.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09092 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 1999 10:12:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05170; Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:12:26 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:12:26 -0600 Message-Id: <199911041312.HAA05170@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #191 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, November 4 1999 Volume 03 : Number 191 In this issue: Hawaii mass murder suspect Re: BC Hydro and Hunters Re: cc s337 in practice Let's play the federal game. 1995 - Sask. Chiefs opposed to gun registry Guns, drugs lead man to jail term Not a hunter but a criminal Chiefs support gun control Firearms argument is pure baloney RCMP F.I.P. DATA BANK BIG STEP TOWARDS A POLICE STAT COMMUNIQUE_DE_PRESSE_-_Le_3_novembre_1999 members What do you mean 60 days Re:The Kingston Whig-Standard ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:11:36 -0600 From: Rod Regier Subject: Hawaii mass murder suspect from: http://www.cnn.com/US/9911/02/honolulu.shooting.07/index.html#3 A record check showed the suspected gunman had 17 weapons registered in his name. \\ n.b. It is my understanding that Hawaii has a state registration system for firearms Another sterling example of how effective registration is in preventing such incidents! - -- Rod Regier, Software Development bus: (902)422-1973 x108 Dymaxion Research Ltd., 5515 Cogswell St., fax: (902)421-1267 Halifax, Nova Scotia, B3J 1R2 Canada mailto: RRegier@dymaxion.ca corporate url: http://www.dymaxion.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:11:42 -0600 From: Myles Bruns Subject: Re: BC Hydro and Hunters I would like to send a sincere "Thank you!" to all the members of this list that took the time to send a letter of complaint to BC Hydro. Thank you for your efforts -- they have made a difference. Myles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:11:39 -0600 From: Myles Bruns Subject: Re: cc s337 in practice Thank you to all who responded (both on list and off) to my comments re: cc s337. I have been enlightened and informed and am now more aware of how and why this process works. I hope that next time I hear of a fellow firearms owner in such a predicament I can offer better advice as to how to proceed. Oh, and incidentally, it is KAMLOOPS, not Kamploops! ;-) Myles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:11:46 -0600 From: "Peter Kearns" Subject: Let's play the federal game. Recently I replied to a letter from a gun control advocate in a local paper. Within 24 hours the paper printed a 700 word rebuttal from one of Valin's "stooges." Within three days a letter from Wendy herself was published to reinforce that of Valin's stooge. They know the ropes, and the rules, and they are trying to outsmart us by misusing them. In most Canadian publications the rule is one letter per person in a two month time frame. Valin had already replied to a letter criticising the Firearms Act about a week previously, so he (apparently) had one of his "hacks" sign the standard "poll results" and "facts" letters. Wendy was dragged in as reinforcement a few days later, and their tactics were good. These people are good at defending the indefensible, they will lie, twist and distort anything to make a point. So how do we counter their manipulating the press? Simple. We adopt their tactics. Right now the fools are so desperate that they are striking back immediately at any letter in any newspaper anywhere in Canada regardless of the circulation. To stay within the newspaper publication time limits they use different people to bolster or rebutt any letter from any of us. So we do the same. Anyone sending in a letter relating to the Firearms Act should forward many copies to "friends." Those friends can then instantly fire in messages supporting the original letter as soon as it is published. This will neutralize the paid federal hacks who reply to our messages. Or those same "friends" can take a few swipes at the letter writers themselves. Wendy enjoyed great credibility with a radio show host in my area, before I challenged her 18,000 membership figures, (which she instantly reduced to "less than" 2,500......) Question their credibility. ask "have you or anyone you know ever been contacted and asked questions for an Angus Reid poll?" Then you can also add, "I don't believe that the poll referred to is accurate. this may be the one time in nineteen that it is inaccurate!" Wendy and Valin both read this digest, so they know what we will be doing. We at least have some ethics, because we aren't professional flaks, or seeking to make a good living from a nice cosy issue. Hey Wendy and Jean, savour the brief success you just enjoyed, because it won't last........ regards, Peter Kearns (The above opinions are my own, and will no doubt be twisted and misquoted by certain bottom feeding scumsuckers.) Simon says: Remember when referring to Wendy, "federally funded lobbyist," and to Jean Valin "propagandist paid for by our tax dollars to make us accept rotten legislation." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:11:50 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: 1995 - Sask. Chiefs opposed to gun registry Publication: Globe & Mail Date: August 25, 1995 Page: A4 Headline: Gun registry opposed Regina - Saskatchewan police chiefs have split ranks with their colleagues from other provinces over Ottawa's proposal for mandatory gun registration. Federal Justice Minister Allan Rock has the support of the Canadian Association of Police Chiefs for his contentious gun control legislation, Bill C-68. But Greg McCullagh, head of the Saskatchewan Chiefs of Police Association, said yesterday, that he and all 18 other chiefs in Saskatchewan are opposed to the planned gun registry. Mr. Rock was in Regina to address the annual conference of the national chiefs association on issues ranging from the Young Offenders Act to DNA testing. But the topic of gun control dominated his speech. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:11:55 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Guns, drugs lead man to jail term PUBLICATION: The Kingston Whig-Standard DATE: 1999.11.03 EDITION: FINAL SECTION: Community PAGE: 11 BYLINE: Arthur Milnes SOURCE: The Kingston Whig-Standard Guns, drugs lead man to jail term A man who had two sawed-off shotguns in his Adelaide Street apartment when Kingston Police drug squad officers came calling Feb. 10 has been sentenced to 60 days in jail. James C. Sayeau, 22, pleaded guilty to possession of a controlled substance for the purpose of trafficking and possession of the two dangerous weapons during a court appearance yesterday. Besides the illegal weapons and ammunition, court heard the officers found a small quantity of marijuana and resin when they entered the apartment. Sayeau was also on probation at the time of the offence. ``That's a pretty short shotgun whose purposes can't be good,'' observed Crown attorney Ross Drummond. ``Guns and drugs don't mix.'' Mr. Justice Rommel Masse of the Ontario Court of Justice agreed. ``There's only one purpose for having a sawed-off shotgun,'' he said as Sayeau stood before him to receive his sentence. ``To use it in the commission of a crime. You don't go duck hunting [with a sawed-off shotgun].'' Besides the jail term, the judge ordered that the weapons be destroyed. Sayeau mouthed ``I love you'' to someone in the body of the court just before he was taken away to begin serving his time. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:11:58 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Not a hunter but a criminal PUBLICATION: Montreal Gazette DATE: 1999.11.03 EDITION: FINAL SECTION: Editorial / Op-ed PAGE: B2 SOURCE: The Gazette Not a hunter but a criminal Your Oct. 27 report of a petting- zoo pony that was shot and killed by a ``hunter who mistook it for a deer'' also conceded that the deer- hunting season would not open until the following Monday. Hunting is a regulated activity requiring compulsory courses and various licenses for firearms, as well as hunting licenses that determine strict dates for hunting and eligible game species. The majority of funding for wildlife-management programs is derived not from taxes but from license sales to law-abiding hunters. In Quebec, more than 600,000 hunting licenses were sold in 1997, ranging in price from $13.69 to $43.25 (plus tax, of course). Whoever committed this crime is exactly that, a criminal. This individual is also a moron for mistaking a horse for a deer. Referring to this individual as a hunter is a slur against those law-abiding citizens who participate in this activity. Paul Chicoine Laval ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:12:02 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Chiefs support gun control PUBLICATION: The Regina Leader-Post DATE: 99.11.02 SECTION: Local and Provincial PAGE: A4 BYLINE: Wiebe, Andrea Chiefs support gun control The Saskatchewan Association of Police Chiefs is officially supporting the federal government's move to license gun owners and require them to register their firearms. The association debated a resolution early in October that was passed in August by the Canadian Association of Police Chiefs, said the Saskatchewan association president and Regina police chief Cal Johnston. "I think the main issue around all of this is public safety," he said. "What we see there is - through safe storage laws and through registration and the licensing of people who want to own firearms - there's a higher standard introduced into the process." The provincial association had not taken any position on registration and owner licensing until the Oct. 6 and 7 meeting in Dalmeny, said Johnston. The discussion at the meeting led to a consensus among the chiefs, he said. "There's still a court challenge under way (of the legislation in the Supreme Court of Canada), and we just wanted to make our position known," said Johnston. The provincial and the Canadian associations did discuss the costs associated with the Firearms Act and required registration and licensing, said John-ston, and they have asked that federal Justice Minister Anne McLellan carefully monitor those costs. "Both organizations are concerned about the cost and the time of implementation, however, it is a large undertaking and it involves a lot of technology." The Canadian Federation of University Women - an organization that lobbies government about issues of concern to women and to humanity - applauded the Saskatchewan Associa-tion of Police Chiefs for supporting the Firearms Act. Federation president, Mavis Moore, said in an interview from Saskatoon the federation is not arguing that criminals will license themselves and register their firearms. But the changes to the law governing firearms will have an impact, especially when it comes to domestic violence, said Moore. "If there's domestic discord... they're not going to have the gun - the gun will be taken away from them." The previous requirement to have a firearms acquisition certificate to buy a gun didn't go far enough, said Moore. The changed legislation requires gun owners to have a licence to possess a gun. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:12:06 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Firearms argument is pure baloney PUBLICATION: Edmonton Journal DATE: 1999.11.03 EDITION: FINAL SECTION: Letters PAGE: A17 SOURCE: The Edmonton Journal Firearms argument is pure baloney Lorne Gunter's very lucid article, on the dismal failure of the Firearms Act stands in stark contrast to the feeble mouthings of Wendy Cukier, on the opposite page. Cukier again parrots the tired old assertion that the Firearms Act has massive public support. Even if we believe this dubious claim, so what?! By an artful presentation of the facts, and cunningly worded poll questions, popular support can be garnered for just about anything! Plato identified that very fact as democracy's greatest flaw. Cukier maintains that no gun owner wants any form of gun control ... baloney! Gun owners want to keep guns out of the wrong hands, too. Witness the National Firearms Association, which has drafted a sensible system of firearm licensing, which gun owners can accept and which will meet the needs of public safety, without registration. The Department of Justice has not even given this proposed system a fair hearing, preferring to hold to it's long term goal of total civilian disarmament. It's likely Anne McClellan is sincere when she tells gun owners: ``We have no intention of confiscating your guns.'' With the law as it stands, confiscation won't be necessary, since private gun ownership will disappear through attrition, within 40 years. David J. Rose, Lancaster Park ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:12:11 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: RCMP F.I.P. DATA BANK BIG STEP TOWARDS A POLICE STAT NEWS RELEASE November 3, 1999 For Immediate Release RCMP F.I.P. DATA BANK BIG STEP TOWARDS A POLICE STATE "Even witnesses and victims of crime may find they have been added to the new police data bank." Yorkton - Today, Garry Breitkreuz, MP for Yorkton-Melville, released a Library of Parliament research paper that shows the newest RCMP data bank allows police to label someone as a risk to public safety without presenting any proof whatsoever and without notifying the individual. The RCMP data bank Breitkreuz has red-flagged is called Firearms Interest Police or F.I.P. "The RCMP have turned the justice system upside down," stated Breitkreuz. "The Charter is supposed to guarantee every individual's right to be assumed innocent until proven guilty but this data bank is loaded with people who have done absolutely nothing wrong. Even when someone finds out the police have a F.I.P file on them, they can't get the RCMP to remove the damaging information." "The RCMP are allowing police forces all across Canada to put unsubstantiated personal information into individual F.I.P files. Then the RCMP uses this bogus information to revoke firearms licences and to block gun sales even though the people are completely innocent of any wrongdoing," declared Breitkreuz. "The Research Branch of the Library of Parliament discovered that some police forces may even put witnesses or victims of crimes into the RCMP's F.I.P files." Breitkreuz wrote the Privacy Commissioner of Canada calling the F.I.P data bank "a travesty and an inexcusable invasion of privacy." The Library of Parliament identified the following problems with the RCMP's F.I.P data bank: (1) - "The reliability of this system depends on the information that is being kept in the files of the different police agencies across the country." (Page 2) (2) - "It should be noted that all police agencies have their own procedures for their files and how events get coded. This means that a similar event that occurs in two different locations may be coded differently. In such a case, one of the events might end up being linked to the F.I.P. file while the other is not." (Page 2) (3) - "Another consequence of the different procedures used by police agencies across Canada is that, in some cases, individuals who are not a safety concern will be linked to the F.I.P. data base. For example, in some agencies all of the names in a file are linked to the ORI code. Therefore, a person who is a witness to an offence or even the victim of an offence may have their name in the F.I.P data base because their name was linked to one of the codes which fell under the selection criteria pursuant to section 5 of the Firearms Act." (Page 2) (4) - "If the individual wished to obtain the information contained in the police agency's file, a second privacy request would have to be made to this agency. Depending on the agency, this might require a privacy request under provincial privacy legislation." (Page 3) "The government brags about all the firearms licences they have revoked and the firearms sales they have blocked using the phony facts in their F.I.P files," said Breitkreuz. The results are misleading because they often act on unproven police information and hearsay rather than factual evidence. Honest citizens are writing me describing their battles with the bureaucracy to try and get their F.I.P files corrected. To start fixing this mess, it is essential that the RCMP send every person a copy of their F.I.P. file," concluded Breitkreuz. - -30- For copies of the research paper, please call: Yorkton Office: (306) 782-3309 Ottawa Office: (613) 992-4394 e-mail: breitg0@parl.gc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:12:16 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: COMMUNIQUE_DE_PRESSE_-_Le_3_novembre_1999 COMMUNIQUE DE PRESSE Le 3 novembre 1999 Pour diffusion immediate LA BANQUE DE DONNEES DE LA GRC SUR LES ARMES D'INTERET POUR LA POLICE (A.I.P.) EST UN GRAND PAS VERS L'ETAT POLICIER < Meme des temoins et victimes de crimes pourraient constater que leur nom a ete verse dans la nouvelle banque de donnees policieres. > Yorkton - Aujourd'hui, Garry Breitkreuz, depute de Yorkton-Melville, a rendu public un document de recherche produit par la Bibliotheque du Parlement selon lequel la plus recente banque de donnees de la GRC permet a la police de considerer quelqu'un comme risque pour la securite publique sans produire la moindre preuve et sans aviser la personne concernee. La banque de donnees de la GRC contre laquelle M. Breitkreuz veut mettre les Canadiens en garde s'appelle < Armes d'interet pour la police > ou A.I.P. < La GRC a chamboule le systeme judiciaire >, a declare le depute. < La Charte est censee garantir le droit de chacun d'etre presume innocent jusqu'a preuve du contraire, mais cette banque de donnees recele les noms de tas de gens qui n'ont absolument rien fait de mal. Lorsque vous apprenez que la GRC a un dossier A.I.P. sur vous, il n'y a rien que vous puissiez faire pour l'obliger a supprimer ou corriger les donnees erronees. > < La GRC permet aux forces policieres de tout le pays de verser des renseignements personnels denues de fondement dans les fichiers personnels de la banque A.I.P. Puis elle utilise ces renseignements sans valeur pour revoquer des permis de possession d'armes a feu et interdire des ventes d'armes meme quand les personnes visees sont parfaitement innocentes de tout delit >, a declare M. Breitkreuz. < La Direction de la recherche parlementaire de la Bibliotheque du Parlement a decouvert que certains services de police peuvent meme verser les noms de temoins ou de victimes de crimes dans les fichiers de la banque A.I.P. > M. Breitkreuz a ecrit au Commissariat a la protection de la vie privee du Canada pour qualifier la banque de donnees A.I.P. de < facade et d'invasion inadmissible de la vie privee >. La Bibliotheque du Parlement a decele les defectuosites suivantes dans la banque de donnees A.I.P. de la GRC : (1) - < La fiabilite du systeme est tributaire de celle des donnees que recelent les fichiers des divers services de police du pays. > (p. 2) [Traduction libre] (2) - < Il convient de signaler que chaque service de police usent de methodes qui lui sont propres pour creer des fichiers et coder les evenements. Deux evenements identiques se produisant en deux endroits differents peuvent donc etre codes differemment. Lorsque cela se produit, l'un des deux evenements peut etre verse dans un fichier A.I.P. et l'autre, non. > (p. 2) [Traduction libre] (3) - < Une autre consequence de la multiplicite des methodes utilisees par les services de police du Canada est que, dans certains cas, des personnes qui ne representent aucun risque pour la securite publique font l'objet d'un fichier dans la banque de donnees A.I.P.. Par exemple, dans certains services, tous les noms mentionnes dans un fichier sont lies au code indicatif du service emetteur ou code IND. Ainsi, quiconque est temoin ou meme victime d'une infraction peut etre fiche dans la base de donnees A.I.P. parce que son nom etait lie a l'un des codes correspondant aux criteres de selection enonces a l'article 5 de la Loi sur les armes a feu. > (p. 2) [Traduction libre]. (4) - < Lorsque la personne souhaite obtenir de l'information figurant dans un fichier du service de police, elle doit presenter a ce dernier une seconde demande de renseignements personnels. Certains services de police exigent que la demande de renseignements personnels soit presentee en vertu de la loi provinciale sur la protection de la vie privee. > (p. 3) [Traduction libre] < Le gouvernement se vante du nombre de permis de possession d'armes a feu qu'il a revoques et de ventes d'armes qu'il a bloquees au moyen des fausses informations qui figurent dans les fichiers A.I.P. de la GRC >, a declare M. Breitkreuz. < Les resultats sont trompeurs parce que la GRC agit souvent d'apres des informations policieres denuees de fondement et des oui-dire plutot que sur des elements probants factuels. D'honnetes citoyens m'ecrivent pour decrire le mal qu'ils ont a amener des bureaucrates a corriger leur fichier A.I.P. Pour rectifier cette situation desastreuse, il est essentiel que la GRC expedie d'abord a chacun une copie de son fichier A.I.P. >, a declare le depute. - - 30 - On peut obtenir une copie du document de recherche en question en communiquant avec le depute Breitkreuz aux numeros et adresse suivants : Bureau de Yorkton : (306) 782-3309 Bureau d'Ottawa : (613) 992-4394 Courrier electronique : breitgO@parl.gc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:12:20 -0600 From: Gordon Subject: members anyone on this list belong to the Stoney plain fish and wild life club or the Wabumum range?? Gordon Demand the Truth from the Liberals! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 07:12:24 -0600 From: "John Perocchio" Subject: What do you mean 60 days Re:The Kingston Whig-Standard Re: Guns, drugs lead man to jail term Dear Editor, I can't believe someone gets 60 days for two "sawed off shotguns" and a drug charge. Either your crown attorneys are stunned, your reporter missed the facts, the "sawed off shotguns" aren't "sawed off shotguns", the local cops didn't do their jobs properly...or, more probably, the gun offense got plea-bargained again and much touted gun control laws aren't working, . Last time I checked the gun offense alone carried a minimum mandatory of multiple years, even without the drug charge. You mention that the accused mouthed "I love you" as he was led out. Answer my first questions and you'll know who he meant it for... John Perocchio Kanata, Ontario ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #191 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:parry@ionline.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ Digest Back-issues: by FTP (cd pub/cdn-firearms/Digests), or visit the Cdn-Firearms web site (above), or put the next command in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v03.n122 end (122 is the digest issue number and 03 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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